MAKING people happy is the mission of newly-minted Minister of Urban Wellbeing, Housing and Local Government Datuk Abdul Rahman Dahlan.
He tells Terence Fernandez and Amirul Ruslan of The Malay Mail that the effort starts by providing a roof over one’s head.
Q: Congratulations on your appointment as minister. Did you see this coming?
A: Honestly, I am overwhelmed. I have bags under my eyes already. Among all the Cabinet ministers, mine is the biggest leap. Some were deputy ministers who became Cabinet ministers, and some came in from the state governments.
The biggest leaps were for me, Khairy Jamaluddin (Youth and Sports Minister) and Nancy Shukri (Minister in the Prime Minister’s Department).
What I told supporters was “untuk jadi menteri? Susah. Timbalan? Mungkin. Tiada jawatan? Confirm” (to be appointed minister is unlikely, deputy is a possibility, to receive no post is confirmed.)
I never thought I was going to be a minister until I got the call from the Prime Minister.
Q: What exactly is the urban wellbeing portfolio in your ministry in addition to housing and local government?
A: Urban wellbeing is about making the cities happy. But happy does not necessarily mean you must be rich. You may be someone comfortable of lower or middle income but if you are comfortable with urban transport and a low crime rate, you may be happy.
Meanwhile, you may be rich but if you’re worried about crime, then you may not be happy. Basically, my ministry asks if you are happy.
Q: Your ministry has a lot of overlaps with other ministries.
A: This is a very interesting ministry because some of its functions cut across other ministries. For example, if you are unhappy with urban transport, then it involves the Transport Ministry.
Although housing comes under my ministry, it involves the 1Malaysia Housing Programme (PR1MA) and Syarikat Perumahan Negara Berhad (SPNB) to a certain degree.
As for infrastructure, the Public Works Department (PWD) is there. And bad or inaccessible schools come under the Education Ministry. My ministry, for the lack of a better word, is a secretariat or a coordinating ministry.
Q: How will you work together with these various ministries and agencies?
A: Even PR1MA and SPNB are not under my jurisdiction. But the PM has made it clear they have to report to me on scheduled meetings on a monthly basis.
I will be involved in some of these NKRAs on living costs of low income households. The issue of corruption also comes under me because it involves local councils (PBTs).
For example, to deal with the perception that PBTs are corrupt or misusing power, what I’m going to do is to ensure my ministry will be the first to signs the MoU with the new outfit in charge of governance and integrity under Tan Sri Paul Low.
Q: What will this MoU entail?
A: This is a new initiative by the PM. They will look at the processes such as tenders and procurement and my ministry. I have informed Paul I want to be the first to be engaged under the governance and integrity pledge.
We will have actual MACC-trained officials in this ministry, and if possible, we would be happy to accommodate MACC officers seconded to my ministry.
Q: How will this pledge help solve corruption in PBTs?
A: I’ve asked them to also go into PBTs. We’ve chosen Malacca and Kedah where we will launch pilot projects for PBTs. These states are best because we have a new Chief Minister and Mentri Besar from the younger generation.
Although I want to make the ministry’s inner workings transparent, it’s not that I’m saying my ministry is wrecked with abuse. I think we’re quite okay but PBTs are a different story.
Yes, I am supervising them but constitutionally they are under the state. It’s all part of the big picture.
Q: Would you care to explain this big picture?
A: I can only say to you that I want to make everybody happy. Some micromanagement has to come into play.
For example, young couples who work in KL find it difficult to own a house. What I want to do is to set aside a certain percentage of people’s housing scheme (PPR) apartment units of around 700sf within the city limits as short- term rental for young couples. They are entitled to stay there for a year, at most two years.
Within those two years, they will have ample time to transit to their own home. In fact, I’m told that the trend now in Bangkok and Jakarta is to build smaller units.
Most young professionals don’t have time to clean large apartments. And if it’s too big, they’re saddled with management fees.
Q: Here lies the problem. There are programmes for the poor whereas the rich can take care of themselves. But what about the middle class? Who’s looking out for them?
A: That is an excellent observation. This is where PR1MA comes in. What they have is fantastic. Although PR1MA was created by an independent Act not under our ministry, there was a lot of discussion with this ministry.
My ministry is interested in low-cost public housing between RM35,000 to RM42,000 for households whose income is RM2,500 and below.
Meanwhile, people with a household income of RM10,000 and above can take care of themselves!
Q: How does PR1MA help address the needs of the middle class?
A: PR1MA came about to focus on the RM3,000 to RM7,500 range. In fact, we had recent discussions where even households making RM10k might also qualify for PR1MA.
The overall picture is they will try to offer you a respectable house for RM200,000 to RM400,000 at 20 per cent lower than market price. This is because they’re not profit-minded and they control the cost of building materials. On the financing side, they have come up with an innovative way of end-financing that will lower the cost even more.
In 10 years, if you are renting from them, the property will appreciate because the property is medium-cost. This appreciation will be nothing less than 20-30 per cent. With your 20 per cent discount plus your appreciation, you have easily 40 per cent equity in that home.
In 10 years, you have the chance to purchase higher-end housing within PR1MA. So you sell your house to PR1MA and you immediately get a minimum upstream of 40 per cent, which you use to get a bigger house because in that time you may have a bigger family.
Of course, you can also sell to a third party but you will need explicit approval.
Q: Is this model sustainable long-term?
A: It can be because we believe PR1MA is there to deliver at least 100,000 houses a year while demand for housing will surely continue.
Q: Is it better for PR1MA to be a separate entity from your ministry?
A: Well, they have access to the Prime Minister, access to funds through the Finance Ministry, and they get to cut through bureaucracy.
I don’t mind that they’re not under my ministry. They report their progress to me and we coordinate the progress.
Q: How about the potential frustration as a result of overlapping jurisdiction? Are you concerned you may face obstacles your predecessors had to go through too?
A: PR1MA handles a different market sector from us. The ministry only handles lower income public housing. Anything above RM200,000 we will not do. That comes under PR1MA. They do not go into rural areas either, only urban and suburban areas.
Q: Is there political will to complete this vision?
A: There is political will because the Prime Minister is behind them. They’re very motivated. I’m impressed. As Minister of Housing, I have to know what’s going on between all projects and agencies. Basically, it is still workable that PR1MA is under the Finance Ministry.
Q: Can you explain your much publicised views on local government elections?
A: I want to reiterate this. It’s not that I said “no” to local government elections. What I mean is I want to cross that bridge when we get there.
I’ve read a lot of articles in favour local government elections and those opposed to it. There’s a common thread between all articles.
What they want is a better delivery system, more accountability, more transparency and more professionalism.
The difference is in methodology. One side says election is better, the other says appointment is better. I’m not ready to say “yes” to elections because of the political situation right now.
If you had an election, who would manage the electoral roll? Who votes? Who decides the electoral boundaries? The Act says the Election Commission (EC) must carry it out because they have the electoral roll.
But the DAP doesn’t believe in the EC! So even if there is an election, the results might be disputed.
Q: What are other reasons you feel this is not the right time for local government elections?
A: Are you sure elections will ensure the best man will be elected? Even elected officials commit corruption and abuse of power.
The rationale that elections will reduce corruption doesn’t hold water to me. You still need systems in place within each PBT. You can achieve checks and balances without elections.
And if you elect someone who turns out to be donkey, how are you going to remove him? You’re stuck with him for the rest of the term.
Q: If we have good municipal services, we won’t even need to talk about local elections.
A: True, but we are dealing with it one local council at a time and you can see the situation has improved because the Prime Minister is making the delivery service his priority as well.
Q: In principle, would you say the people want local government elections?
A: We’ve done surveys studying local government elections around the world and you’ll be surprised — the turnout is very bad.
For example, the 1998 United Kingdom local government elections saw only 28 per cent turnout.
In Pakistan, the turnout is consistently below 50 per cent. Over time, people may just become disinterested in elections. The way DAP has phrased it, local government elections will make democracy more vibrant. But I think Malaysians just don’t care. And it might result in an intensified problem of racial polarisation. You have places like Kuala Lumpur, Ipoh Timur, Klang, Petaling Jaya with high Chinese majorities. And Malay-majority areas like Alor Setar, Kuala Kangsar and Kota Bharu.
Despite rhetoric about multiracialism, we still have people voting based on race. This will lead to increased racial polarisation which will be unhealthy for all.
Q: Some would argue that elections would allow for more accountable, more professional candidates to head councils.
A: Sometimes democracy doesn’t provide for the best solution. There’s no reason for councils not to be able to appoint the best. If the Penang government is so concerned over efficiency and integrity, what’s stopping them from appointing the best people for the job?
They can choose from the NGOs and the professionals. They have no reason to say the system now is not efficient.
With the federal and state governments, you have to elect your representatives. With PBTs, what we actually have is a choice!